AL (01:45):
Okay, Natalie. Welcome. So excited to hear on SaaS Breakthrough. We're gonna jump right in. So start by telling me a little bit about Navattic, where you are head of growth and operations. How would you describe Navattic in like two sentences? Give me the little pitch.

NM (02:01):
Yeah, so basically Navattic let's prospects experience SaaS products earlier in the buying cycle through no code interactive demos. And what this means is prospects can get hands on with your product on their own time without having to talk to sales or set up an account.

AL (02:16):
I love that I went to the website yesterday. I tooled around at it. It was very interactive, super engaging, and I can see why it's like a powerhouse for customer facing teams.

NM (02:26):
That's awesome. Yeah. Glad you went to it and gonna dive into how we made that website today.

AL (02:30):
Yeah. Okay, great. So let's jump into that. So you just went through this website redesign. So walk me through the goal and intent for that initiative. We're going through a website redesign right now, I'm at the tail end of it, and already deeply regretting this entire process. So remind me, why do we do this? Like, what is the goal? What were you trying to do?

NM (02:52):
So the number one goal was reshifting our ICP. And with that, we had to do rebranding to match the new ICP. Basically the base was getting more and more crowded. We saw some competitors come up and when that happened, we realized we really had to focus. And so when we looked at our competitor base, we saw that marketers or anyone using it for lead gen were our most active, they gave the most value. So it just kind of became a no brainer to pivot that as our ICP.

AL (03:17):
Got it. So you wanted to are really focusing on marketers and by changing up that ICP, it forced you to re-examine the website.

NM (03:24):
Exactly. Yeah. The website before sort of touched on all of our different use cases, which are still good for Navattic, but we wanted to have it really hone in on marketers, they knew that we were the go-to marketing solution.

AL (03:36):
What were you looking for in terms of results for of this? What was your intent and hope by doing kind of a new rebranding with this new ICP in mind?

NM (03:45):
So the number one was quality of leads. Like right before we rebranded our sales team was coming to us saying we were getting a lot of leads that weren't good fits necessarily, or we couldn't solve their problem. So above just like metrics, we really just wanted to make sure that the people we were speaking to, we knew were gonna have long term success with the program.

AL (04:04):
Great pretty clear goal. So walk us through kind of how you start doing a website redesign for anyone who hasn't done one before, what are the steps? What's the planning process look like? And how long did it take you to do this?

NM (04:17):
So I did it probably in about a month. Which was pretty speedy. I actually just... Yeah. We're a small team. So the benefits of small teams is you can move fast. I joined Navattic in October actually. And my first initiative was this website redesign. The team identified we need a new ICP. It was one of our main goals, but no one had really done this repositioning reworking. And I knew the number one step of repositioning was the website. As far as actually getting the website done, the first thing I actually did was talk with our head of sales around some content and ideas I had. I think, as marketers, like sales is your best resource. They know what prospects want. They know if you're on track. So just talking with him, having a conversation around like, Hey, these are some ideas I'm thinking of, some messaging I think would resonate with marketers, but what do you think? And once I got his, okay, that's when I can move on to some of the next steps,

AL (05:08):
Such a underlooked kind of aspect of the website too, is that it really is your number one sales enablement tool. Like making sure that it really drives exactly what you're looking for for sales. I think is smart. That's exactly why you wanted to start with your ICP, going to your head of sales I think makes a lot of sense. Then what did you do?

NM (05:28):
So after that, once I kind of got his, okay, I mocked out a few different designs of our website using the new language. Another part on top of that, as well, I mentioned before was part of the redesign was not only the copy and the language, but actually putting Navattic front and center on our website. In the past, we had kind of an example product demo, but we didn't actually show what Navattic did. And what I wanted to do with this rebrand was let people actually see the platform. Part of selling to marketers is they want authenticity. They wanna trust you and they wanna experience it themselves, if they can. So that was also not only redoing the copy and the messaging, but also thinking how can we show Navattic? And I worked pretty closely with our head of product on that. And he's been, he's fantastic. He's a great design eye, way better than mine. And he was able to kind of come up with this dual model to show. And if you go to the website, now you can see it like what you build an example and how you build it and actually shows Navattic.

AL (06:24):
And how do you do that? Like, walk me through again. I spent some time over there yesterday and I was amazed by just the integration of somehow getting your product inside of this website. Like, does that work?

NM (06:38):
So of course we use Navattic to actually build this out. And what you do is you kind of take what we call captures. They're kind of screenshots, but they're not screenshots because they're interactive. So you just go in with the Chrome extension, you take these captures of your platform and then you just storyboard it out kind of like a PowerPoint of presentation, just one app to the other how you wanna walk a prospect through your tour and then you layer on like tool tips and interactions. So you can tell them what's happening.

AL (07:05):
When we talk about ICP, marketers and lead gen, what is the number one use case for Navattic? Like how are people best using this product?

NM (07:12):
I think the number one way is honestly what we did end putting it up on our website, right? Maybe it's your main form of lead gen, or maybe it's just a way to educate prospects. But I think the number one value is people who want higher quality prospects and that are more well educated about your product when they go to speak to sales.

AL (07:29):
Okay. So you are working closely with product, you've got this like beautiful thing designed and implemented on your homepage and it just jumps right out. It's super interactive. It's really engaging. Somehow you did all of this in a month on top of positioning and messaging and copy. What were the challenges and pain points that came up along this? I mean, doing this in a month, must have been like a full out sprint. Were you doing, were you sleeping or eating? Were you doing like anything else during that time? Walk me through a little bit of what that looked like.

NM (07:57):
I was lucky that since it was so early on in my work, I wasn't doing as much else. So I really just got to focus on this. I think some of the challenges is that just getting everyone aligned, right? Like even in a small team and everyone agrees with the mission, having five people who have great opinions about the website, the most important part of our marketing can be difficult. We did have some times we went back and forth. The project got paused for a little bit and then we put it back up and I think that's really important to get everyone aligned early on and have some things to show that they can kind of, you know, actually see intangible rather than talking about an idea. And that, that is part of the reason it did speed up towards the end though, was because while there was some pausing, getting everyone's feedback early on, made it at the end, like it wasn't a huge surprise for everyone.

AL (08:42):
And as a new marketer, you said you were not a new marketer, but new to the team. How do you yourself manage such a heavy project like this while also kind of getting used to the company onboarding like, I mean, I don't know how new you were to the company, but you know, building out positioning and messaging and copy requires a deep understanding of the audience and the product. So how did, how did that all work for you?

NM (09:04):
So I did have a little bit of a cheat code. I used Navattic at a previous company before joining

AL (09:10):
You were the audience.

NM (09:11):
Exactly. That's what made it easy, honestly, that's the cheat code. Is become a marketer to something you use or something you identify with and it's so much easier or get an expert on your team.

AL (09:22):
Yeah. I love that. That's incredible. I also love being able to show how companies use their own products. I think, especially for those targeting and marketing to marketers, I think it is such a, I can't explain the experience I had going to your site and seeing it as a marketer and being like, I get this. I get this because I see it. If I had seen it written down, I might not get it in the same way. So that's such a powerful tool. And the fact that you had used it before is all the more amazing.

NM (09:52):
And I have to give a shout out to our product team just real fast. They made it also like easy to use. I made this tour maybe in an hour and then a few other times with revisions. So if it wasn't for them and how simple they made it, like this would not have gotten done in a month.

AL (10:06):
So what did your, what were your primary lead captures looking like on your old site? Like how were people, how were leads being generated on the old site?

NM (10:16):
So we did have an old Navattic tour, but it was an example one. So right now we have an example of Google analytics which was also strategic repositioning before we showed it was actually an example like material lab and people kept thinking that was Navattic because it wasn't a recognizable product. So we switched it to Google analytics. So people would say like, oh, I know Google Analytics is not Navattic. So we had a tour with a form gated as well, so that it was still a Navattic tour. That was our primary lead gen.

AL (10:44):
Okay. And what kind of results are you seeing in comparison with the old site?

NM (10:50):
So I only have new results unfortunately. I set up a lot of our attribution tracking as well, but I do have the results of the new site. So first of all, we're seeing 40% conversion rate from anyone who fills out any form on our website to MQL, which we say anyone who books time with our sales team is an MQL. But even more exciting than that was just the qualitative part of it. And the quality of these leads. So first our sales team raving about these leads after we designed. Nothing feels better as a marketer than your sales team saying like, Hey, you did a good job. This looks great. And then also the quality of the leads, like just in the data. We're seeing about 45% of those MQLs convert to an opportunity. And then our close rate is almost about 50% right now. So that means... of every five MQLs that come to our website, one becomes a customer.

AL (11:41):
And what are you identifying about what their journey looks like? Like are these new people to your website who are just converting on first blush? Are these people who are coming back to your website, they were maybe previously newsletter subscribers or had come to a webinar or something, or what, if anything, do you know about who your most qualified captures are?

NM (12:02):
Yeah, I would say majority of them are new. In all honesty we're still building out like a webinar, and newsletters. We're still decently new of our marketing. What we're seeing is these are, it's a mix of people coming from, people who have been searching or through ads saying like, I'm looking for an interactive tour or demo or new product experience. And then also some people who have awareness kind of more like high level, like might have seen it in a LinkedIn post, or honestly, what we see a lot is people who see a product tour on someone else's website, they Chrome inspect it, which just crazy. They go through that stack, see Navattic and then come to our website. Cause they're like, I want the same thing.

AL (12:39):
Amazing. Talk about intent. Like they literally went through the footwork of identifying, like, what is the thing that I want. Now I'm gonna go find it versus searching for possible solutions to the thing that I think I might want or whatever. That's amazing. Okay. What else about this initiative do you wanna share with us if anything?

NM (12:59):
The only last thing I'd share is just if you're looking to like replicate or do something else, a lot of pushback you might get is, oh, I don't wanna show my product on my website. What if competitors see it? Or what if, what if prospects don't book time with my sales team, cuz they see the product. One, like your competitors can see the product if they want to. They can sign up as a fake salesperson. Like they can, they'll find a way to see your product. But two, if prospects are seeing your product and not converting, that probably means they weren't good fits or there's some changes you have to make to your product. So I'm a big believer in like, let people see your product. That's what they want. Everyone's sick of sales calls and discoveries and free trials that are hard to set up. So you shouldn't let that be the blocker towards experimenting with something.

AL (13:44):
And I'm curious how, if at all, have your sales calls actually changed because the first step they've already seen some sort of product demo, right? Like what are the sales teams going through now with the prospects on the call?

NM (13:58):
Yeah, I think that's one of the best parts honestly is the fact that these prospects are educated. I take time every week to listen to some sales recordings and I love nothing more than hearing like, okay, I got it. Like I saw it on the website. I get what it does. Like, can you just walk me through how to do it? But I get the value of it. It's no longer that first question. Like we don't have to spend 20 minutes explaining what Navattic does, people who are on the calls, get it. And honestly our first discovery calls usually like 30 minutes. And by then we're sometimes off the races doing a trial or building out a demo for them. So it really speeds along the sales process too.

AL (14:30):
Yeah. That, that makes a lot of sense. This is like a trick question maybe, but like how are your wheels now spinning related to this success? You've honed in on your ICP. Your website is crushing some conversion numbers. What is next up for you in terms of like marketing initiatives or nurturing them or figuring out what else you need to do to sort of keep that momentum going?

NM (14:54):
Number one, website specific is we wanna experiment with completely ungating. Right now, we do still have one gate and we did that cuz we weren't sure at first the success we'd seen. We wanna make sure we could still reach out to people, but I think that's gonna be a big initiative. Number two, honestly, my biggest initiative is how can I help our customers better use their product tours or think about in new ways? Like we've used it internally for ads, for emails, for enablement across the whole spectrum. So I'm really focusing on how can we replicate that with customers, maybe through education, through blogs, all of that. And that just creates that viral loop, right? Like one person sees it, then more people see it. So by having by better helping our customers, it actually helps us as well.

AL (15:36):
Definitely. And it's making your product sticky right now. It becomes something that they can't get rid of because they're using it here and here and here and here and it becomes a part of their entire, you know, marketing strategy. So how could they ever get rid of it? That's perfect.

NM (15:52):
Exactly. Yeah.

AL (15:54):
Okay. Let's pivot from talking about your awesome website initiative. I wanna ask you a couple leadership questions and then we're gonna jump to our lightning questions. So you are running a department at Navattic. Talk to me a little bit about the biggest leadership challenge you're facing this quarter or this year. It's January, we're 13 days into a brand new year, 13 days into a brand new quarter. You probably spend a lot of time like the rest of us building objectives or goals or getting team aligned and excited, we're back from break. So right now where you are, like what is the one thing that you're looking to overcome?

NM (16:30):
So it's funny cuz it's probably the opposite of the question, but I'm actually a department of one. So I think the biggest thing I'm trying to overcome right now is how do I work more with the rest of the company? Or how do I just make sure I'm getting insights in the rest of the company not just siloed. While also still leaving block time, like our founders have done a great job at not overscheduling all of us, not over meeting, I actually can do work during the day, which is crazy compared to some of the past roles I've had. But on the flip side, you know, we're remote. How do we also make sure that we're still having that time to bond and also just like sharing insights. So I think that's really been on my mind and I'm showing a lot of remote companies mind, right? How do you balance meeting in person or not in person, but meeting up and, and chatting, getting to know each other versus okay but I need deep think time too. I'm not just in meetings all day.

AL (17:19):
We talk about that a lot. I think you're hitting right on it, which is like, we have to contribute to our culture in some meaningful way, even though we're not in an office together. And also I can't spend my whole day on like coffee calls with people because I need to be able to do my job. We've implemented no meeting Wednesdays, which I love, which is just, just means that like we don't hold any internal meetings whatsoever on Wednesdays and we try not to hold external meetings with vendors or customers or anything on those days as well. But I love that it's Wednesdays because for some reason it like helps to really break up my week, like Monday and Tuesday I come in and I'm like digging outta my email from the weekend and I'm setting up goals for the week. And by the time Wednesday comes around, I haven't done any work.

AL (18:04):
I've just been responding to other people's needs. So someone wrote something once that, that said like, you should actually check your email at the end of the day, instead of starting your day that way, because all that email is, is responding to what other people want rather than you managing your own needs first. Which I love, but I don't know how to do so I'm still in my email all the time. But then once it comes along and I get this breath of fresh air, I get to do all this work and then Thursday I'm like kind of back to the grind. But yeah, I think that is a challenge for a ton of companies, honestly like regardless of size.

NM (18:39):
Yeah, no, I think that's great the no meeting zones, I personally try to kind of just do that on my calendar. Like I will have my calendar blocked off basically to, sometimes to like half an hour 15 minutes, but I will make sure if I have a big chunk of time to block it off. And we're pretty respectful about if someone has like a do not schedule, unless it's a necessary meeting, giving them that time.

AL (18:58):
Yeah. I think that's smart. I do the same thing and I try to encourage a lot of people to do that as well. I think it is one of the easiest time management tools that we have is just like scheduling time for ourselves to think and brainstorm. I schedule down like I'm going for a walk or I'm, I'm leaving my desk to go have lunch because otherwise there's no sense of accountability for me either. Like I could just blow through my whole day suddenly at six o'clock at night, I haven't left this chair. And you know, with working from home, creating some sort of boundary there, I think is really important and gets, gets a lot harder, you know, as you aren't going into an office.

NM (19:35):
Yeah, exactly. And I also can't tell you how many of my ideas come from that off time, like going for walks or runs or whatever. That's when one of my best marketing ideas always come to me. It's never, when I'm sitting down cranking at my computer. So you're actually being a better employee by doing that same.

AL (19:49):
Yeah. You have to step away from it. Otherwise you never get fresh eyes. I love it. Okay. Lightning questions. Are you ready?

NM (19:56):
Yep.

AL (19:57):
What is one thing you did this week to support your team or in your case team of one, maybe support other people's teams or fellow colleagues?

NM (20:09):
So this is cheating a bit cuz it's tomorrow, but biweekly, I host a marketing lunch and learn. So like I said, I'm the only marketer, we sell to marketers. So the rest of the company's still learning a lot about marketing. And so this is just the time I choose a topic. One time I was attribution, something like that. And I just teach the rest of the company about marketing. It's also a fun time for them to relax on a Friday. And for me it's not hard cuz it's just talking about my job.

AL (20:33):
I love that. That's so that's so smart. We talk about that a lot too in, in, at Banzai around like our marketing team sort of leading the charge of being the role models for what we wanna represent as a brand that talks to marketers and how we are also excited. And we, we get really into it as marketers marketing to marketers and for other people in the organization, they get into it too, but they're not marketers. And so there's a level of education there. I think that can be really powerful. So that's awesome that you're doing that. Okay. What is your most embarrassing webinar moment?

NM (21:08):
So I wish I had a better answer, but it really is probably the most generic of forgetting to hit record. Like biggest webinar, got some pretty big hosts and you know, halfway through, you have to play a little like this is recording now sound. That was hard.

AL (21:23):
I love that. Okay. Last one. What is your favorite tool that you can't live without?

NM (21:30):
So I have to say AHREFs and everyone pronounces differently. AHREFs whatever. I'm an SEO nerd at heart. It's my background. So like I've just been a fan girl for AHREFs from the beginning. And even if you're not SEO, it still gives you so much intent data and understanding around a topic. So highly valuable as a marketer.

AL (21:47):
Great answer. Can't live without it. Natalie, this, it was such, such a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much for walking us through this campaign. I'm so excited to see how other marketers might follow your steps and really nicheing down their ICP and see how that can provide value. If we market to everyone, we're not really marketing to anyone obviously, as we know. So any final closing thoughts and then following those, let us know where we can find you and where we can learn more about Navattic.

NM (22:16):
I think just final closing thoughts is I think in 2022, like the buying experience just has to get better, whether it's through a product or video or even just graphics, like we need to show buyers our product. They'll find a way around it if we don't. And I think everyone's just so sick of the current cycle. So that's definitely on my mind for 2022. I think it's on a lot of marketers mind and then mostly just on LinkedIn, but honestly the good content's on Navattic's page. So recommend heading over there.

AL (22:45):
Thank you so much, Natalie.

NM (22:47):
Yeah. Thanks for having me.